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Thursday, March 29, 2007

The Periodic Cycle of Construction - Destruction

There are certain phenomena about which there is no doubt as to their existence, yet they are hardly understood by man. This is summarized in the epic struggle of chemists to place elements in a periodic table, with properties being governed by relative location. The fact I wish to emphasize is, there was knowledge that there is a pattern to the properties of elements, but this pattern was not understood.

Similarly, the magnetic north and south poles of the Earth are reversed periodically, while the exact reason remains unknown. Speculation and theories are rife, but the questions of why and how remain largely unanswered. (By the way, if this reversal had included a period of complete absence of the field, there would be no atmosphere on Earth)

Moving on, we come to the Universe. As I have just mentioned elsewhere, there is no tangible concept of the "birth" of the universe itself, but because the universe's boundaries are being defined by the points where the farthest celestial objects exist, the big bang is taken as the origin.

The big bang was something which propelled matter outwards from a concentration which may be taken as a point.

This might even be periodical. Like the ice ages, perhaps the big bang has a reverse phenomena which occurs after a period of time, to be again followed by the bang itself.

What could possibly reverse the big bang? Something like an object achieving the speed of light. Infinite mass would have an omnipresent gravitational pull, with an infinite force that would immediately begin pulling every object composed of matter towards itself. This, or something like it, may cause the "death" of the universe, just as the big bang caused the "birth".

And the bottom line is, there is nothing we could do to prevent it.


Gr81 said...


Two posts by Saurya "Time" which also realted to this...

And yes I remember discussing about the Big Crunch with Twish (Mayb I'll post the convo if i can find it)

But yes, I completely agree with your idea about Periodic cycle of nature.. everything that has a beginning has an end.. even our universe..

Anyway this is a really gud topic but i wonder how many comments we'll get b4 8th. Till then, mayb u shuld wait RG

Gr81 said...


Part 1

Part 2

TwIsTeR said...


The idea is not new.

I dont agree with the idea that sumthin gets the speed of light and ... infinite mass ... and pulls the universe ... blah blah blah ...

If u'd refer to one of my posts in our brotherly blog ( LINK BELOW THIS PARA ), and concentrate on the Friedmann's third model of space time, this is what is supposed to happen. A big bang... followed by a big crunch... repeat a bang ... crunch ... bang ... n so on ...

Here's the link :

Ive thot, then rethot over this.

Newayz... there is a theory in QUANTUM PHYSICS which says that...

A Quantum System of an arbitary degree of complexity WOULD regain its initial state after an arbitary amount of time.

Of considerations of entropy come into play to cloud any logical reasoning. However, there is no mention of ENTROPY in Quantum Mechanics... or Newtonian mechanics for that matter...

Aiight. More on it after 8th

Au revoir till then.


RG said...

The example of an object achieving the speed of light is purely hypothetical and has no purpose other than to provide guidelines for analogy.

Furthermore, we have no reason to believe that there was only one big bang at only one time and it had only one epicenter.

I am hinting at a universe composed of separate sections, each with their own center of origin. Perhaps this might mean several crunches?

RG said...

After reading Saurya's posts, I can provide a visualization of my previous comment as a clock with various pendulums, independent in their movement but perhaps related as a second's hand would be to the minute's on a watch face.

RG said...

Sorry for making this third comment in a row, but you can see that the clock analogy agrees perfectly with quantum mechanics. As the degree of complexity, i.e., number of pendulums increases, so does the complexity of the equation which expresses the initial state. In a simple pendulum, it is easy to predict when the original state will be attained again (momentarily). Not so in a clock with, say, 50 pendulums. We would have to find a moment wherein all 50 are at the original position.

TwIsTeR said...


Thatz allright.

The idea about multiple epicenters is appealing.

For example, BLACK HOLES can be taken to be miniature Big Crunches !!!

However, discussing about the "epicentre" of the Big Bang is meaningless.

Reason ?

When a big bang is shown in terms of inflation of a spherical baloon ( A rough picture... )
its a common misconception to understand that the centre of the sphere( the baloon )... is the centre or epicentre of the Big Bang.

However, space-time in those diagrams is defined only on the surface of the baloon. The centre of the baloon is not a REAL point at all ! Its an IMAGINARY ( or complex ) point in spacetime. So basically, it does not exist.

SO there IS NO EPICENTRe of the BigBang. Else, problems would arise as we would have an absolute frame of reference in our world.

However, a consequence of this is that from every galaxy, if we observe, the neighbouring ones move AWAY...

When this was observed from Earth, it arised a misconception that Earth is special, in the sense that it is the epicentre of the Bang(the big one).

However, look at the surface of the baloon. IF a point on the surface of the baloon is considered as a galaxy, it is easy to see that every other point on the baloon moves AWAY from our "galaxy". Same for any other point ON the baloon.

Thus there is no point in the universe where the big bang began from.

Big Bang was not the start of Space or the Universe. It was the start of Space-Time. Ofcourse we can't visualize all this, thanx to mother nature and her evolution...


Chillaz for now.


Arun Chaganty said...

3 things I'd like to say:

1) HURRAH!!! The bulbs are on again!
2) HURRAH!!! The bulbs are on again!

3) Hmm, to be honest RG, your post didn't say much, but I guess it was a good convo starter. I'd like to say that despite the amazing pattern-ness of our universe, the roots are still in a chaotic subsystem. Despite entropy pushing things into states of lesser complexity, regions just break away and form more complexity (but being greedy hogs, these regions use a crud-load of useful energy...). I find that the patterns that arise through absolutely random occurences to be just amazing (look at my only post for that: Chaos Games, or look up Conway's game of life).

4 (I lied...) ) Regd. Surya's post, he mentioned something about the universe just chucking out a packet of entropy and starting again. I can't really accept that, because well, that's just tossing the problem from one location to another. Where does that energy go to? My immediate thought was perhaps into another 'multiverse'. The string theory implies the existence of parallel universes, so it seems very likely that this entropy is transferred between universes, but what phenomenon allows that to happen *then* and not now?

5 (I made a super whopper big lie) ) The talk about multiple epicenters for black holes appeals to me too. I instantly visualise a fluid space-time geometry, with vortices and sorts forming. It's a very pretty picture, but is probably crap.

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